YouTube Gone

Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA) has directed all concerned operators in Pakistan to block website www.YouTube.com till further orders. These directions have been issued in compliance with Pakistan Penal Code and the urge of masses against blasphemous drawings of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH].

Authority said that it has banned about 450 URLs besides YouTube and Facebook, which had inappropriate content.

People of the country think that this large scale protest should be escalated at diplomatic level to best produce the results.

PTA has established a Crisis Cell to monitor all such contents. PTA’s helpline toll free number 0800-55055 and email [email protected] can be used to notify all similar URLs where such objectionable material is placed.


Here is an email Micronet sent to its customers:

Dear Valued Customer,

Micronet has blocked access to www.youtube.com in compliance with recent orders of Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA) for containing blasphemous material and no-action by Youtube to remove the objectionable hate material from its web site.

This access would remain blocked till further orders by PTA.

Best Regards

Following Is PTA’s Press Release:

YOUTUBE SHUT DOWN IN PAKISTAN

Islamabad: PTA has directed all concerned operators to shut down website www.youtube.com in view of growing sacrilegious contents on it. It may be mentioned that PTA after all possible avenues were used within its jurisdiction, including using regular channels available on the FACEBOOK and YOUTUBE to launch protest, to avoid appearances of derogatory material available on their websites – which increased in numbers as time passed by, that PTA decided to completely shut down these sites from being viewed within Pakistan.

PTA has so far blocked more than 450 links on internet containing derogatory material.

It was not only in line with the Constitution of Pakistan, the wishes of the people of Pakistan but also an extension of the court orders passed by the honorable High Court of Pakistan and directions of the Government of Pakistan. PTA has already announced a phone number and a complaint number to receive complaints on the issue.

The attitude of administrators at FACEBOOK and YOUTUBE was in contravention to the WSIS Resolutions and their own policies advertised on the web for general public. PTA would welcome the concerned authorities of FACEBOOK and YOUTUBE to contact the PTA for resolving the issue at the earliest which ensures religious harmony and respect.


    • Okay !! i was trying to understand the decision of LHC to ban facebook and hardly convinced myself that it was right..
      but Lo!!!! youtube and wikipedia ????
      for Goodness sake, these are informative websites, not a wastage of time at all..
      and what’s next on the list of surprises ???
      YAHOO ?? MSN ??? GOOGLE??
      BAN the internet.. !! :))
      what say U ?? lol
      stupidity at its best..

        • Wikipedia is not Blocked… Go get some rest!
          Extremism in one sense bothered many liberal minded nerds, However it makes a perfect logical argument against certain acts. Wikipedia is not blocked…. Don’t try to make your point through false information spreading. Face book must be banned even with its so called benign behavior. It has been banned in China long time ago. And I think its very wise to block this site forever.

      • Ok, here is my question to you:

        Are you a muslim??

        About youtube:
        Didn’t you see loads of videos(against our Prophet[PBUH]) getting viral on first page?
        About wikipedia:
        they have created a special description page for the “draw muhammad day(Nauzubillah)”

        no Muslim will bear these things.

        • You are absolutely right, We can’t tolerate this…. this is an unbearable issue and can’t be tolerated in any case… It is a good decision in the history of Pakistan

        • i am a Muslim dude..!!
          lets try and resolve the issues through talks and there are a so many other ways to protest..
          our government can now reply to Pala Alto (facebook Admin) who expressed deep shock and surprise over facebook ban this is the time you raise the issue with him or facebook team..
          Loss of some million dollars wouldn’t rely concern facebook. Need of the hour is to clear all the misconceptions the non muslim’s have about islam.
          Fortunately the suicide bombers and Talibans have done enough service to silam so much that it changed the way other people look at Islam now
          start changing yourself, do things that non muslims follow u /…
          not the other way around
          Got it ??
          Peace and THANKS

      • youre a mof*a.h*l* dude !!!
        you dont know a bit about the HolyReligion,you suppose urself to be following ….

      • I support the ban. This is not about restricting access, this is a show of power and unity. We can cause a loss to them and we will.

        • > This is not about restricting access, this is a show of power and unity.

          Who’s powerful here — Facebook, or us? Facebook has over 400 million users worldwide. So, the PTA cut off Pakistani users (somewhere between 2 and 4 million — 0.5 to 1%), and you think it’ll have an effect? Seriously?

          We’ve caused them no loss.

          • The loss is significant enough bro, these people are so hungry for money that they can’t stand a loss of 1 dollar.
            Btw, you could use the time-off for physical activities.
            It is a positive change as far as I know.

          • Do you even know how facebook earns?
            Go get some basic knowledge before calling me an idiot.
            What are you? some sort of 6 year old?

            • > Do you even know how facebook earns?

              I do know how much they make, because I’ve been following their rate of expansion for some time now. They’re not even profitable yet.

              If you believe they make more money on average from roughly 2 million Pakistanis than they make from the other 398+ million, then you’ll believe anything. When was the last time you logged into Facebook and clicked on every ad you saw? When was the last time you even clicked on any ad? An ad costs as little as $0.05/click; if 2 million pakistanis clicked on 1 ad a day (which doesn’t happen), that’s only $100,000. Facebook is on target to make about $3 million *a day* right now.

              • Websites suffer loss when their ratings go down, 2 million Pakistanis are significant enough to worry them. Their recent statement also shows that. If it were like you suggest (that we only cost them expenses) they should have said “fine buzz off then”. Like Denmark said when Muslims suggested a ban on their products.
                You don’t have as much business sense as these people.
                I have a suggestion for you if you want FB so badly, apply for a visa and leave.

                • Someone posted some numbers on the Pakistan ICT Policy mailing list, and I worked out the math. If 1 million Pakistanis viewed 50 pages a day, with three ads per page, for a week, that would generate at least $21,000/week in revenue for Facebook (it costs at least $0.02 for 1,000 ad impressions, or $0.04/click). To put it in perspective, Facebook makes between $23 and $38 million *a week*.

                  Pakistanis turning off Facebook will not make a dent at all. If there are 2 million Pakistani users (0.05% of the total active userbase), there’s no way that they can generate more than 0.05% of the revenue on average. Facebook will make somewhere between $1.2 and 2 billion this year. Do the math yourself, Fawad.

                  Still think that’s a lot? Well, here’s another perspective for you: just for user-uploaded photos alone (not videos, notes, links, or status updates), last year Facebook was adding 25 terabytes of storage *every week*: http://www.reddit.com/r/geek/comments/8h65h/facebook_220_million_new_photos_per_week_which/

                  How much do you think that costs? They can afford to do that with or without Pakistani users.

                  If you truly wanted to deny Facebook revenue, you could simple install Adblock, or a similar extension for your browser. If you want everyone in Pakistan to not give Facebook money from ads, have everyone install Adblock. The irony here is that the best way to contact all Pakistanis on Facebook for such an adblock campaign is…through Facebook itself, which is blocked. Shooting yourself in the foot, Fawad.

                  > I have a suggestion for you if you want FB so badly, apply for a visa and leave.

                  I’ve spent 13 years in Saudi Arabia, 7 in the States, and 10 now in Pakistan. Believe me, I’ve seen all kinds of viewpoints, and every time I argue with someone like you, they all suggest I leave. Learn to accept the facts, Fawad.

                  • —I suppose you are a Muslim (by heart)—
                    1.Even if what you say is true, still rating plays an important role for a website. The Facebook team has shown “disappointment” on the ban and they are concerned. I know the mentality of businesses, they aren’t concerned for you, they know it is going to harm their site. A whole country banning it is indeed a “dent”.
                    2. Leaving Facebook does not even tickle Pakistan in any negative way, we could only get benefits out of it. Experts suggest personal information safety problems with FB. There are hundreds of alternatives.
                    3. I personally can access Facebook and each site anytime but I spit on their team and their biased rules and I deactivated my account. I received warnings and threats when I just touched a few topics in wikipedia, they even got my IP address. But even after thousands of users (including myself) reported “pornographic” images depicting Prophet Muhammad (pbuh,) they didn’t care. This is a slap on the face of Muslims and I agree with Pakistani authorities (I rarely do that) on this matter. The whole world is offended by this ban by Pakistan and it is a fitting reply. I know there are better options but as it has already been done, I stand with them.

                    [I’ve spent 13 years in Saudi Arabia,…]

                    I live in the heart of Europe. I agree and disagree with them, but I never compromise on a few things. You have been so active in defending Facebook yet you didn’t raise your voice against their hideous act.

                    Re:facts…
                    What are the facts Faried?
                    Do you agree with their right to let criminals abuse Islam?
                    Do you agree with them calling our Prophet a paedophile?
                    I don’t know if you believe in Allah or not, as your replies and concerns seem to be with FB only.

                    • > You have been so active in defending Facebook yet you didn’t raise your voice against their hideous act.

                      Please point to one sentence or phrase where I have defended Facebook. I’ve repeatedly stated that da’wah — engaging and educating Facebook’s *users* — is a better way to deal with the situation.

                      When the original cartoons appeared in 2005 or so, I posted comments to many blogs on LiveJournal (Blogger was, of course, blocked). While there were a few people who deleted my comments or further ridiculed Muslims, *the vast majority understood the points I was trying to make, and understood why Muslims were upset*. Even if they didn’t agree, they understood why Muslims were unhappy. I probably explained things to more people in a few days than all the protesters did in Pakistan, Libya, Egypt, and other countries. Never underestimate the power of polite discourse, Fawad.

                      > Do you agree with their right to let criminals abuse Islam?

                      You’re focusing on the wrong people. There will *always* be people who abuse Muslims and the Prophet, no matter what you do. It was the case 1400 years ago, it was the case 400 years ago, it will be the case 400 years from now. However, there will also be be thousands of more people who are undecided or unsure of the Muslim viewpoint, and *they can be convinced to support us instead of them*.

                      Why do you support efforts to deny me the ability to talk with them? Is it more important to you that they remain ignorant? Even to the last day, interspersed between the posts by Muslim-haters and Muslims who abused the non-Muslims, there were still Muslims who posted on the “Draw Muhammad Day” page trying to convince them politely of their sin.

                      To me, Facebook is a platform where I can reach out to non-Muslims.

                      > I don’t know if you believe in Allah or not, as your replies and concerns seem to be with FB only.

                      La illaha ill Allah! I wish you would support efforts to spread Islam, not to isolate Muslims!

          • I made them less money than I cost them, just like any other Facebook user. They barely meet their operational expenses, and are nowhere near profitable.

  • as usual government intentions are political rather anything to do with the situation. they wanted a ban on youtube they got it.

  • Thats Good, I have already deactivate my face book Account. I think every muslim should de activate their account.

    • Tumhay apne post kay block honay par dukh tau aisay ho raha hay jaisay tumhay us post ki waja se NOBEL PEACE AWARD milnay wala tha :)

    • Pakistan also just block them… It is not a solution. Govt must take strong action so next time they wnt able to do it again in any platform.

    • Pak govt not able to provide us alternatives? cmon where are our IT experts, software eng and other industry related people to cater pakistani users?

      • Sir All are alive, if you are not able to see. Muslim seach engine exist but you never use it…..www.imhalal.com

      • People go to Facebook because their friends, family, classmates, etc are all there. You can go ahead and create your own social network — and be alone there.

      • Our IT experts Are In market. But i dont know why we still not able to make great social site.. I know muany pak social network sites , but none of the really become famous.. dnt know why computer Software engineers coming to one platform.

  • not only deactivate account also write the reason why we deactivate our account.then they should know we can’t bear any thing like this
    thanks

  • We will ban everything but will act against Nabi’s teaching – further to this all of the MPA/MNAs, all the club, all the resturant that server alcohol, all the CD/DVD centers should be banned too. Its so funny, we act without thinking.

  • here is an idea ban internet in pakistan!!! and close ur eyes like pigeons!! so sad our people can me made fool so easily

    • In China Face book has been banned long time ago…. Consider ur self as a student, employer or from any other socioeconomic background, Facebook is the biggest distraction in your work (normally) and more alarmingly a project of CIA to collect personal information. The so called liberalism — that is adding fire in your belly — should not in any way
      effect this wise decision.

      • How many sites do you visit every day or every week that aren’t work related? If “distraction” is a valid excuse, then why do you visit those sites?

        • For the prosperity and development every nation took some measures. Don you forget the China’s decision against facebook? Do you know the amount of public employers logged in every morning playing farmvillie? If not, you should better check… However if you want to use facebook go ahead… There are still methods…. But how likely it is your personal chats, pictures and relationships exposed in the hands of someone that can be publicly disposed on the basis of there privacy statement. I dont believe you would like to see your sister marriage album publicly viewed? Are you?
          Do you want to argue on issue why a ridcule holastic page (JEWS) is banned by facebook in 20 mins and this page is not banned even reported by half a million of users?
          Do you still think as a Muslim and Pakistani you would stand against the noble issue and try to defend your argument as a shameful act of liberalism?

          • I don’t have a sister, and I know how to use privacy controls, but thank you for your “concern”.

            What you fail to understand that I *am* trying to stand up against them, and I believe my best weapon is da’wah, NOT isolation. If I can’t get the people behind Facebook to see my point of view, so what? Facebook has a few hundred employees at best. There are hundreds of millions of non-Muslims on Facebook that can be persuaded by a reasoned argument. Why do you deny me the right to preach to them?

            If you think isolating ME from THEM will solve anything, bro, you’re seriously confused. When you cut 2 million people out of a site with 400 million people, who will be affected? You’ve just shown the world how easy it is to knock Pakistan off the internet, and how to adversely affect Pakistani companies that depend on the internet for revenue. After all, Facebook isn’t the only site blocked; Google was (and still is) unreachable for many people.

            Lastly, I ask you to answer an honest question: is isolation the Sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH), or is it to engage and educate?

            • hey people in Pak don’t have the ability to understand or listen.

              2 days ago my brother received sms from unknown number((probably SMSing every number in the series)) that we should Sacrifice our self & blowup the whole USA bcoz of DRAW DAY on FaceBook.

              My brother replied Why kill the whole USA country?? when a Jew from Israel made the page on Facebook.

              The SMSer called my brother & threatened to murder him as “You are a Fakir bcoz u love USA!!!!”

              And now my brother has started getting threat calls & SMSes from some Madrasa Boys.

              See how you can very easily be labeled as KAFIR if u have an opinion which DOES NOT MATCH the Ill minded Mullahs!!!!??

  • Below is a mail from PTA. Now you can play your role in a constructive manner.

    Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA) has directed all concerned operators in Pakistan to block website having blasphemy material till further orders. These directions have been issued in compliance with the directions issued by Ministry of IT & Telecom (MoIT) in view of decision of the Honorable Lahore High Court (LHC).
     
    PTA has issued instructions to all concerned to block the objectionable link/URL on facebook or others which were immediately blocked.
     
    PTA has established a Crisis Cell to monitor all such contents.  PTA’s helpline toll free number 0800-55055 and email [email protected] can be used to notify all similar URLs where such objectionable material is placed.

  • all porn sites are allowed since the start of internet in pakistan but how easily they ban facebook and youtube just coz they were being used against the government.

    • “… just coz they were being used against the government.”

      they were not used against the govt. but our Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhammad[S.A.W.W]

      for Allah’s sake, wake up!! Open your eyes!!

    • They are not used against the government they are used against our HOLY PROPHET (Peace Be Upon Him).
      Don’t know why still our Muslim brothers think that it is a wrong decision.
      Just because you can’t wall your friends,Chat with your friends or even strangers and can’t play farmville you think it is a wrong decision.
      Grow up guys and think about it rather appreciating this step you guys are making fool of yourselves.
      No one is greater than Allah and our Holy Prophet (Peace be upon Him)

    • Musa… Not sure about youtube but facebook earned it…. :-) 32000 request for removal of that link on our prophet but no action. 3 request for removal of link against holocaust and action was taken within 20 min…. :-)

  • Now thats really Appreciative..!…
    Facebook, youtube, Flicker, Wikipedia and many more are gone!

    This will give a huge blow to all of these as well as to Google’s per click earning!
    Now they will understand the power of muslim Pakistanis!

    Phenomenal Move!

  • Why you people focus on this point that these are informative sites, Why you don’t focus on this that the non Muslims are joking (Naooz Billah) our beloved Prophet(PBUH)???? Are you Muslims???? For God say Wake up.

  • Finally some nice steps taken. But most importantly blocking of PORN sites should also be made mandatory bacause they are absolutely immoral. Just like the closure of M-NET, MM1 and MM2 movie channels in pakistan in 2005

  • Now the govt is trying to get political advantage by blocking youtube and wikipedia because these sites are being used against govt. Govt should block porn sites insted of these sites

  • I think it is a good decision all the websites which show content which hurts Islam and shows blasphemous drawings of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH]should definitely be blocked.And the people who are complaining should actually realize this is good for ISLAM and making a few scarifies for ISLAM will give them reward in the hereafter.It is not like its the end of the world and we can’t move on without these sites.

  • Youtube is blocked but wikipedia is still running. why they are blocking these types of websites ? they are just for information use. they should not block youtube or wikipedia.

  • face book to some extent can be considered as sane to block but wy to block the youtube and wikipedia

    youtube and wikipedia are very useful and informative sites .

    this action more appears to be serving the political purpose of the govt at which people have uploaded very reality based videos in whioch govt malpratices and people comments have are shown .

    Even the face book blocking is rediculous , if the face book is doing any thing serious like caricatures drawing then its blocking is not a suitable action to block it .

    FB is the best way thru which i could have established my links across the world and i have many people all over the world who are my freind.

    And i have a good exchange of view with them .

    Dear all ,

    this is the age of information and here more effective steps will be needed to to taken to counter such attacks at our religon rather than closing our eyes like a pigeon.

    Will this action of ours bring any finanacial loss to the FB ?

    How cunning it is that when there were too many clips over the Youtube regarding the govt mal-practices , the Govt theu a very affective channel deleted all such contents which speaks of its curruption and mis handling of the institutions over the YouTube.

    While now when if there is any thing as such then they are blocking the entire site .

    It is not a sane decision ,

    Block and eliminate the contents which are blasphemious rather than making the other people suffer who rely on such softwares .

  • They could block just anything they want – who cares? Thx to technology, I can surf youtube, facebook and whatever it is ;) Anon WTG!

  • i feel ashamed by reading comments above. most of them are from muslims. i think most of u are humiliating islam by giving such comments. we can talk much about long term planning but thinking of short term actions i think govt. has taken right step. no one will die without using facebook or youtube for few days

  • I personally believe now PTA is over doing the protest, theyre crossing the lines abit…
    Youtube and Wikipedia are sites used for information, and content LINKS can be blocked rather removing the whole thing.

    Facebook ban is justified as Facebook authorities itself was promoting it by now removing at after 28000 complaints, if your report any article at wikipedia or any video at youtube, its sure to be removed.

      • I wouldnt agree to over reacting, if we do, internation comunity will easily label us of being the extermists nd take a negative point of view of the whole thing rather understanding of an individual Muslim and why we are offended by this act.

        And yes the foreign ministry should take a legal action and file a lawsuit against facebook in US violating their act of “freedom of speech”

        • Um, I don’t think you understand the concept of “freedom of speech”. If you did, you’d know that what the PTA did was violate *our* freedom of speech by blocking sites *we* use.

    • Wikipedia is not gone….. Please dont add ur own personal bias towards a sensible decision by the government. Although I am not a Govt spokesman but still I like the decision. In China Face book has been banned long time ago…. Consider ur self as a student, employer or from any other socioeconomic background, Facebook is the biggest distraction in there works (normally) and more alarmingly a project of CIA to collect personal information. The so called liberalism — that is adding fire in your belly — should not in any way
      effect this wise decision.

    • Its up to you man weather you open it or not.Govt can’t do anything if you want to watch it.You will watch it in any way (Mobiles,cds etc etc) but all it depends on you.
      So don’t blame Govt for that.

      • And that’s *exactly* why Facebook shouldn’t have been banned: it’s up to *you* to decide whether you use it or not. No one holds a gun to your head and forces you to use Facebook.

        If it’s *your* decision to look or not look at porn, why is it the PTA’s decision whether you use or don’t use Facebook?

  • shame on all those who are blaming and making fun of our govt. in one way or other. at least they are doing something.you so called Muslims are also responsible for such events because non Muslims knows we don’t and cant protest. you poeple dont know the greatness of prophet muhammad(saw).

  • shame on all those who are blaming and making fun of our govt. in one way or other. i think you people haven’t seen those drawings, if you had seen those u wouldn’t have said this. i am sure u would not have tolerated those cartoons for ur parents. how can u think about exceptions when it comes to prophet muhammad(saw). i this u don’t know who prophet muhammad(saw) was.

  • Jahal qoum, jahal government. Yeh mulak kabhi taraqi nahin kare ga jab tak ke criticism ki hosla afzai nahin ho gi. Yeh criticism hi hai jo improvisation lata hai.

    Yeh ek moujaza hi hai ke aaj ke zamane main bhi itni jahliyat ki misal hamain milti hai aur itne bade level pe.

    • Bhai aap Israel hi chalay jao wahan aap ko sahih aqalmand log milain gay.
      Chor do is jahil mulak ko.
      Nabi kay naam par koi criticism nahi. Agar kisi nay karna hai to proper forum par karay. Pornographic pictures bana kar konsa criticism kar rahay hain?
      Aaap western values say impressed lagtay ho. Aap ko in ki asleeyat ka nahi pata. Agar main aaj holocaust kay ooper page banao to 20 minutes main ban lagay ga mujh par.
      Wikipedia main main nay jews kay baray main aik dicussion ki thi to meray laptop ka number trace kar kay warning di thi inhon nay muhay 2 bar!
      Aap jao israel chor do is jahil mazhab aur qaum ko please.

  • Blocking sites like Wikipedia is just like burning a library if a copy of ‘Satanic Verses’ was found there!

  • I think this is just plain ignorant! Come on! I bet you the sites about 9/11 havent been blocked! This is the 21st century! No government or organization can control the freedom of speech, thoughts (though very stupid attempts have been made) and therefore the internet! If you dont like a page, well then just dont look at it! Burying your head in the sand will not make it disappear and certainly will not bring a change! And concerning the drawings now.. Of course there are ignorant artists and people that express their opinion in a way that others can get offended.. But so what?! Its their right to express their point of view. How many drawings have made fun of Jews or Christ being on a cross?? Did the Vatican ban the internet??!! Use your heads and stop being friggin fanatics!

  • Wikipedia is not blocked. I just browsed it on PTCL and its working absolutely fine.

    Anyways, good step taken by government.

  • similarly courts of Pakistan shuld also impose ban on websites related to pornography,non cultural show.
    hat of to people who have taken step at right time

  • Wikipedia is not gone….. Please dont add ur own personal bias towards a sensible decision by the government. Although I am not a Govt spokesman but still I like the decision. In China Face book has been banned long time ago…. Consider ur self as a student, employer or from any other socioeconomic background, Facebook is the biggest distraction in there works (normally) and more alarmingly a project of CIA to collect personal information. The so called liberalism — that is adding fire in your belly — should not in any way
    effect this wise decision.

  • those of you actually watch the blasphemous content should very well ban ur accounts, those of us who use facebook to socialize with our friends and family should not suffer because of you ppl

    • I haven’t saw that but still I believe if some one want to compromise his/her privacy to other people (or on web someday), they are most welcome to socialize on the expense of there personal. Y one should suffer if her personal pics or chats will some day be published some where… After all one is soicializing :p

  • A great decision by LHC and PTA banning face-book.those who are saying that banning wont help need to think a little.well we Muslims are about 47% of face-book users and we have been asking face-book to stop this event but face-book was just ignoring us. If we unite and leave face-book all at once face-book looses 47% of its users. with this i think next time something like this event happens face-book will listen to us and will give importance to our beliefs.

  • PTA is a group of idiots sitting togather , banning fb and youtube isnt gonna do shit lol . even though i can still acess them XD damn im good :D .

  • Dear PTA,

    I am a student of Virtual University and I watch the lectures from official youtube channel of VU.

    What the F**k am I suppose to do now? Papers are starting next week!

  • I think it can shows some loss to thier appropiate companies but at the same time we need to build our own web application which can give these giants a big time…

  • Great news to hear about ban on facebook. But I think youtube should not be blocked because it already contained derogatory stuff about Islam.

    • Oh Yaara bhaiyoun.. Koi mujhay VU kay lectures sun nay kay liye youtube kay ilawa koi site baataye. mein jo video streaming site search marta hon woh block hay.
      please meri madad karein.
      facebook gaye bhar mein LPC. lekin meray lectures kiu gaye….

      • @Asim Shb ,

        it will be really painful that the YT where the people could also listen the holy vioces from Kahba is also no more accessable.

        and

        even for me who used to see much decumenteries of National Geographic is also laying stranded .


  • >