Petition Challenges Google’s Operations in Pakistan, Alleges Tax Evasion and Copyright Violation

Google_Pakistan

A petition has been filed against Google for doing business in Pakistan without registering the firm and having an office in the country, reported Dunya News.

The case was filed by Mr. Kamil Muzafar with Intellectual Property Organisation of Pakistan, challenging Google’s ability of doing business in the country without any physical office or registering the company in Pakistan.

IPO, the body that will decide the fate of the case, is likely to call Ministry of Information Technology and Telecom, Pakistan Telecommunication Authority and Google’s representative in Pakistan after Eid holidays.

Petitioner contended that Google’s operations are illegal because company isn’t registered in Pakistan at all. Petition further said that Google is earning millions of dollars by just registered a domain name with PKNIC, while its earnings are not taxed.

Petition alleged Google of violating intellectual copyrights and evading taxes for over ten years.

It merits mentioning here that FBR had once hinted to tax Google, however, things didn’t go as FBR had urged because of various reasons including Google not being a registered firm in the country.

It maybe recalled that Google was once asked to appear in Lahore High Court during a hearing for the petition filed against the ban of YouTube in Pakistan, however, company neither appeared in the court nor submitted any reply or its inability to join the proceedings.

Tech reporter with over 10 years of experience, founder of ProPakistani.PK


  • Elite

    100% Correct.. tax is to be paid..

    • asim

      Thanks and Google must hire better people in Pakistan to defend its illegal operations. Not amateurs like Shahid Saleem.
      Playboy is not operational in Pakistan, but Google is fully operational and doing business in Pakistan with all kinds of agreements with local companies and generating revenue.

      Very soon the reps/agents of Google will be in jail too like the case of eBay in India, the only difference is that eBay is a legitimate company in India but Google Pakistan is totally illegitimate.
      Its like a grey traffic business.
      Simply misleading others won’t prove the “Innocence of Google” , again don’t confuse it with Google sponsored and backed movie “Innocence of Muslims”. :)
      Jail, Jail Jail is the destinations for all the crimes including blasphemy committed by Google’s agents and reps in Pakistan. They have no immunity in this country.
      Motto for Google Pakistan is ” Reap as you Sow” and its payback time for this country by the people who think they are too smart.

      • Shahid Saleem

        If I go to amazon in .pk domain, then how does it redirect me to .com domain? Magic? Last I checked, the .pk domain nameservers are amazon’s REAL nameservers. You are Wrong on that point.

        Again: simply having a domain means nothing. ANYONE IN THE WORLD can register a .pk domain whether they use it or not. You think playboy registered it to use it? Ha ha! They registered to protect their trademark. (Are you also a fool who does not know what trademark vs copyright means?)

        Still I await your petition in LHC. Suddenly strange that you have gone silent on accusing Badar himself and local companies for doing “illegal business” with Google.

        • asim

          I think you are a mentally challenged person who is a obsessive compulsive liar too. I can diagnose you as bipolar who suffers from delusions. Come and live in the real world. But maybe you are too delicate. I doubt your true gender also, maybe you are Sana Saleem not Shahid Saleem?

          • Shahid Saleem

            I prefer Shahida :):):)

            • Tenrai

              Shahid… it’s no use arguing and making a case against Pakistani Zombie mentality, I am serious, leave them be…

              …And Asim before you jump fields, and put on your psychiatrist bi-spectacles and label me as a heretic Indian or a OCD; I am a Pakistani as well. I just happen to have my faculties to reason still functional. That too without, frustration or resorting to obseniteis like a fifth grader.

              By the way Shahid is right, online companies only pay taxes where they are physically located. you can look up the recent Tax evasion scandals plaguing Apple, google, Microsoft.

              When you order an item from the internet, your item is held by customs; you pay tax duty imposed by your government here. The company where you bought this item from is not taxed, even if they have a .pk domain unless they are physically present within Pakistan’s jurisdiction!

      • Frankwrite

        Shahid Saleem has a knack for confusing issues (to what ends we can only guess). The matter is very simple and straightforward. Google is using the word ‘Pakistan’ to brand its Pakistan specific business. Whether it is doing business in Cyberspace, on the averted side of the Moon or on an obscure planet in Andromeda galaxy, if it is using the name of Pakistan to brand its products, it must seek the permission from the owner of the name (GoV). If I use the name and logo of Apple on my website to do business,without the permission of Apple, would that business be legitimate just because thde whole activity is in cyberspace? Clearly, Apple can sue me. Same way, Google can not use the name of Pakistan without the consent of the GoP. If this is not the violation of IPRs, then what is?

        • Shahid Saleem

          Um, the government of Pakistan cannot stop anyone from using the name “Pakistan”. Where did you get that idea? Certainly not from reading a law.

  • Shahid Saleem

    This is a really stupid case. Any time I pay for something online from a company that does not exist in Pakistan (like Amazon or for a magazine subscription), I am doing business with a company that does not pay taxes in Pakistan. Any time I click on an ad served by a company outside Pakistan, they are making money from me (indirectly). So, shouldn’t they ALL be paying taxes? Or exactly why is Google singled out and not the others?

    I think This is just a ploy to make it less incentive for Google to open office here. Follow the money: who (locally) benefits if suddenly we cannot use Google Checkout or pay for Android apps?

    • Shameel Faraz

      if thats their intention of having google open local office in the country , then i think its ok to do so , will be beneficial for us

      • Shahid Saleem

        You don’t threaten Google to shut down its services in order to make them open an office in Pakistan (See our infamous comments by IT minister earlier this year).

        You don’t threaten Google to shut down their revenue in order to make them open an office in Pakistan (see above IPO office petitioner).

        Think straight.

        • PPAK

          O a GOOGLE poojari !!!!
          GOOGLE O Mighty bless the ignorant as they do not know :)
          and bless them the GOOGLE FAITH to save them for the hell they are otherwise destined for :P

    • aamir7

      We have to start from somewhere. While I may agree that a petition may not be a good start, but there should be a way of taxing internet companies, like they are taxed in the US/Europe.

      • Shahid Saleem

        As for sales tax in US, THERE IS STILL NO INTERNET SALES TAX!!! the general rule is that if a company has no office or representative or warehouse in a state, then it does not have to pay sales tax for online orders from that state. If I live in Florida and I order sunglasses from an online company based in New York, no sales taxes are collected or paid. Only this year will their federal government pass a law for internet sales tax, almost 20 years after online sales started.

        What is happening to Google by this petition still seems like a gangster action. Why is the government not passing a law saying all internet purchases must be taxed? Is there even such a law in Pakistan’s law books? Is Google really making so much money from Pakistan that someone from the IPO office is taking them to court? And under what law is the IPO office responsible for TAXES?

        • aamir7

          You are an expert in spinning the question.

          I was talking about taxing the revenues, profits. Every business entity is taxed, and so should be the case for internet companies.

          • Shahid Saleem

            You said revenue from internet sales should be taxed like in US, I pointed out that they are NOT TAXED in the US. What’s the matter, is pointing out facts called “spinning” now???

            All boils down to one question: UNDER WHAT LAW does a company that have no office in Pakistan have to pay taxes in Pakistan? Can you answer that? Without an actual existing law, the whole petition is useless.

            What is the court going to decide? Is it going to force 1) Google to open office, or 2) force government to block payments to Google Wallet? What’s next? Will every company in the world that accepts payments from Pakistanis be forced to open an office on I. I. Chundrigar Road?

            • aamir7

              So you are implying that companies aren’t taxed in US?

              • Shahid Saleem

                They’re taxed UNDER THEIR LAW. And that law allows for this situation: A company registered in California state does not pay any taxes to Ohio state, even if it does $100 million of online sales to Ohio a month. It only has to pay federal taxes and California state taxes. That’s it.

                Did you find a law where Google (or Amazon or Apple or Facebook or GoDaddy or …) has pay taxes to Pakistani government despite having no office here? Does the law exist?

                No law, no need to tax them.

                • aamir7

                  Bahi jaan, that’s exactly what i am trying to communicate you. We need to get the law. We need to tax Internet Companies.

                  • Shahid Saleem

                    First of all, it’s simple: introduce a law. The courts have no ability to ADD laws to Pakistani law books, they can only strike them down. So how is this petition a good thing?

                    Second, It works both ways. Are you ready to pay US taxes for money you make from US sources? Same with EU taxes?

                • abbasi

                  have u ever been to USA?

                  • Shahid Saleem

                    Where do you think I gave example of Oregon state from? Searching randomly on Wikipedia???

                    • abbassi

                      You did not give an answer in yes or no, so i assume you have never been to USA.
                      If you have been there plz let us know which state and city so that I can verify by asking you questions.
                      Also I doubt about Wikipedia been the source of your research. Your knowledge about USA is not correct. No one can get away with the law forget about Google. It is only in Pakistan this kind of mal practices are allowed and tolerated.

                    • Shahid Saleem

                      The answer is YES, I have lived there for many years. Since it was not clear to you before, it should be clear NOW. I have also stated that in the past on this blog, many years ago.

                      Secondly, I have lived in San Francisco.

                      Thirdly, your whole premise of questioning me is useless. Either what I said about Oregon in my other comment is true or isn’t (you can confirm it is TRUE). Either what I said about internet taxes is true or isn’t (you can confirm it is TRUE). But there’s no way for you to confirm for a FACT that any answer I give you is from my personal knowledge or from Google.

                    • Kashif

                      is there a f***ing law on propakistani to ban these sort of Jerks?

                    • aamir7

                      Down-vote comments and they will disappear automatically. You can report a comment if its abusive. Multiple reports can result into a permanent ban of commenter.

                    • Shahid Saleem

                      You’ve been outvoted, son.

                    • Tenrai

                      You really are a CRETIN abbasi … I can spoof my ip to reflect any country I want and with google earth your questions shall be IRRELEVANT!

                      “Also I doubt about Wikipedia been the source of your research. Your knowledge about USA is not correct. No one can get away with the law forget about Google. It is only in Pakistan this kind of mal practices are allowed and tolerated.” — oh really?

                      Abbassi corruption prevails in every corner of this earth; it is part of Human nature, why do you think Qur’an Forbids it? Because it seeds choas and only with the FEAR of Allah Subhan wa Talah can one truly abstain from the evil of corruption…

                      look up YF-23 and YF-22 American Stealth fighter jets, why was F-22 Raptor chosen? Politic, bribes, and rampant decadence! YF-23 was better in every way! Faster, more stealthier yet it wasn’t chosen!! Lockhead Martin had more cash to through around.

                • Jibran Manzoor

                  If the don’t have office and no business in our country, pknic should simply close down google.pk. :)

            • ibrar

              Google ad revenue is NOT sale of anything. It is SERVICE category. And do you know that companies are considered persons in legal terms?
              .
              “UNDER WHAT LAW” you asked? By the same law, where non-US residents still pay taxes IN US if they are earning from US.

              • Shahid Saleem

                We are talking about Google’s revenues from Pakistan, and Pakistani tax law. US, non-US resident, wahtever, does not apply here.

                But google’s ad revenue is not 100% of what they make from us. Google Play is a growing component.

          • Jibran Manzoor

            see my replys above Aamir. I agree with you.

        • Pakistani in Paris

          Shahid I think instead of doing Western Worship you should look at the current predicament Pakistan is in and then propose a way forward.

          Yes there is no sales tax on Internet is USA but USA tax to GDP ratio is around 27% while in Pakistan it is 9%. I’m all for giving incentives to investors be it global or local but we first need a level playing field for all. Why should Pakistani companies be paying 40%+ in taxes while companies like Google Apple and others pay nothing in Pakistan? Is that not disadvantage to us.

          As a patriotic Pakistani I am all for supporting local business from Pakistan entrepreneurs. This is the same in China, USA, Russia and Japan. The governments here give business to locals all for the simple reason that if profits are made in Pakistan there is a larger chance the proceeds will be reinvested in Pakistan.

          But what I am noticing in Pakistan is the opposite. Our tax system is so messed up and corruption so rampant that we are forced to beg foreign companies and countries for investment and give them all sorts of incentives to the detriment of local Pakistani businesses.

          If you give incentive to Google or Amazon to have to pay no taxes, why not do the same for homeshopping.pk, daraz.pk, tcsconnect, ishopping.pk and so many others?

          I have left Pakistan now because it was not viable given economic and risk environment such as security, tax regime, falling currency etc etc but I will back one day and that time I want basic recognition and credence to local Pakistani businessmen. Inshallah.

          • Shahid Saleem

            The answer is already in your own question: increase the local tax to GDP ratio. You do that by taxing **LOCAL** people and companies (especially multinationals) who get away with paying little to no taxes.

            Does Google have a local office? No. Then why should they pay taxes to the local government? Does Amazon have a local office? Apple? No.

            Government after government fails to do anything about the problem. 90% of our fiscal problems go away if we depend on ourselves, and the way to do that is to fix the tax collection inside the country. How much will taxing Google or Amazon or Apple or Facebook help the country overall? Even if you taxed 50% of their revenue from Pakistani sources it won’t do anything substantial to your tax to GDP ratio.

            Despite the badly written linked article, Google does not make $500 million a year from Pakistan.

            • Pakistani in Paris

              I told you to think before just rushing to respond. The answer is not to tax the already taxed you fool. It is to expand the tax base and depending on direct tax (income tax) rather than indirect takes (such as GST, FED, Excise etc.).

              The whole reason why Tax to GDP in Western countries is high is because it adequately taxes everyone. Some may even say that European citizens are overtaxed but in Pakistan only those are overtaxed are those that pay the taxes – and by and large the country is not taxed.

              Oh and before you go on and say that Google and Apple etc should not be taxed in Pakistan, please read these articles. It was written by Western people – yes those ones who you are your masters and to whom you beg for investment. Why don’t you just migrate for good and get foreign passport.

              France is pushing for a Europe-wide Google tax

              http://qz.com/134449/in-its-latest-stab-at-the-digital-economy-france-is-pushing-for-a-europe-wide-google-tax/

              Germany can’t wait for Europe on tax avoidance crackdown

              http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/19353817/germany-cant-wait-for-europe-on-tax-avoidance-crackdown/

              The licensing charges reduce tax bills in major markets. Revelations that companies like Apple , Google , Amazon and Starbucks have reduced their tax bills in this way have helped drive corporate tax avoidance to the top of the international political agenda in the past year.

              • Shahid Saleem

                I said it plainly: increase the local tax to GDP ratio. Does taxing Amazon, Google, gandi, etc etc do that? N. O.

              • Tenrai

                I don’t know what you are smoking Mr. Patriot but in Pakistan less than 1% actually bother to pay taxes.

                Even then disparity among those who is pay taxes is staggering, people can easily bribe income tax commissioners to look the other way while they file for bogus taxes…

          • Tenrai

            “I have left Pakistan now because it was not viable given economic and risk environment such as security, tax regime, falling currency etc etc but I will back one day and that time I want basic recognition and credence to local Pakistani businessmen” —And you are Patriotic?

        • Ibrar

          Bought a windows tablet from Best Buy in Washington state. Paid around $50 tax. Order etc and everything was placed online.
          If you go to newegg tax rules page, they shall tell you that in two states, sales are taxed.
          Hey Google is no angel. They have a history of tax evasion. I am sure you know what am i talking about.

          • Shahid Saleem

            Yes, in two states out of 50. Now what does that tell you?

            Interesting that you used example of Washington state. Just south of Washington state is Oregon. Oregon has **NO SALES TAX** for things you buy. If you had walked into a Best Buy in Portland, Oregon, you could have bought that tablet without paying a cent of tax.

          • Tenrai

            Tax evasion is due to loopholes in American Tax laws and of course, you can buy off senator and governors to favour you over other retailers.

        • Jibran Manzoor

          Ahan, then why does WSJ (Wall Street Journal) state: Apple paid no corporate income tax to any national government on tens
          of billions of dollars in overseas income over the past four years.

          it also says: Apple used technicalities in Irish and American tax law to pay little or
          no corporate taxes on at least $74 billion over the past four years,
          according to the Senate panel’s findings

          • Jibran Manzoor

            This means that just by getting into technicalities and having good lawyers gets you to avoid taxes. But they are in the law

          • Shahid Saleem

            What you are talking about is a different issue. Google for “corporate tax credit Pakistan” for local example. It’s no different for US or EU companies.

            It even applies to normal people, like salaried employees. For example, I pay income taxes on my income (deducted at source) but using 100% legal measures I can reduce the amount of taxes I actually pay: all I have to do is follow the tax code as created by the government of Pakistan and updated by FBR regulations. Meaning, I can get money back that was already paid as Tax.

    • Ali Salman

      This was expected from you. Why don’t you just write one line “You know what my point of view will be? ” and everybody will understand. No need to write four paragraph.

      • Shahid Saleem

        So are you saying everyone BUT me is okay with taxing a company that has no local presence? Does that even make sense to do that?

        Hey, why stop at tax laws? Why not extend it to other laws. Maybe you did something that broke a law in Zambia country. Should their criminal laws apply to you in Pakistan?

        • PPAK

          A law should be introduced that a company which does not hold an office in Pakistan is not allowed to do eCommerce transactions in the country and then these companies be taxed accordingly, with out singling out any one. The petition without such law does not stand a chance.

          The argument “we are not ready to pay US taxes for money we make from US sources” First of all WE are talking about local and international/US companies doing business in Pakistan not Pakistani companies doing business internationally/US. If Pakistani companies do business in US they should as well be ready to pay taxes to them. Every country has a set of circumstances and they have to decide and plan their policies accordingly. We can not just blindly follow US, WEST or any other region for that matter. Our govt/Bureaucracy is incompetent and we have a flawed taxation system, We have yet to take the right measures to increase our local tax to GDP ratio, but these should not serve as excuse to not implementing any thing we see beneficial.

          However, an attitude like u can not do “this and that” to GOOGLE is very childish. Please do not elevate GOOGLE to a status of GOD and do not consider what ever happens in WEST or US as BENCHMARK to differentiate between RIGHT and WRONG.

          • asim

            Agreed dont be afraid

          • Shahid Saleem

            Oh, that is an excellent way to make companies NOT do business with Pakistanis. Suddenly I won’t be able to buy books or subscribe to website services or magazines because they don’t have offices in Pakistan and don’t have the means to open a local office.

            Your proposal will **KILL** internet commerce for us. Not every company is as big as Google and has the means to have a local precense.

            • PPAK

              Look Bhai SAAB, U sound PARANOID to me.

              I may not agree with this whole Petition thing against GOOGLE but i sincerely ***DOUBT*** that just by introducing laws to tax giants like GOOGLE will some how **KILL** all the internet Commerce in Pakistan, this is rather an exaggeration on your part. GOOGLE is a GIANT but read my words and remember them by HEART “GOOGLE & INTERNET are two different things they are not the same”

              I am not a law/taxation expert all i want is taxing the BIG FISH and i am all up for it(weather internet or real world). As for the smaller companies, We can put a threshold on volume of transactions after which the laws of LOCAL OFFICES and TAX will be applicable, and off course we might have to develop an infra structure to monitor/regulate all this.

              As much as i dislike incompetent rulers and bureaucrats in our country i dislike monopolizing corporations upon which no law is considered applicable due to there mare size. No body is talking about KILLING eCommerce. We have to start STREAMLINING things from somewhere. No one not even GOOGLE has to be singled out. I and most of the people here love to see foreign investments but that does not mean we should give a total FREE hand to foreign investors, they can do what ever they want to do if they do not like some LAW of the LAND, fine sir we will change all in the name of WELCOMING the FOREIGN INVESTMENT. This is not the way forward and feels more like BLACK MAILING then investment. There has to be a BALANCE between these two extremes

              • Shahid Saleem

                You say no one should be singled out, but out of Google, Amazon, Apple, Yahoo, Microsoft (remember, paid storage and computing services), only Google has been targeted by the petition. So from the beginning your viewpoit is already at the opposite of what the petitioner wants: he only singles out Google (for whatever purpose, we can only imagine).

                If you support a petition to go after a big company like Google for not opening office in Pakistan, then what do you think small companies will do? Especially after our court rules against Google?

                If they don’t rule against Google, then this whole petition is madness and waste of time, but from the other comments here a lot of people seem to support taxing Google. Seems likely that the courts will see it that way, too.

                I pay for a VPS to host websites and email. I use VPS outside Pakistan for reliability and high speed internet and low cost. Does my small VPS provider (probably fewer than 500 clients in Pakistan) have to register an office in Pakistan same way as Google? Should their Pakistan-sourced revenue be taxed by my govenrment the same way the petition wants Google revenues taxed? After all, the difference between vps provider and Google is only a matter of SCALE, right? What applies to Google also applies to it.

                • PPAK

                  Look BHAI JEE, Seems like you are NOT READING the response before rushing to comments. If you haven’t really read between the lines most of the people here are saying that this whole concept of taxing eTransactions of Internet Giants is plausible, however targeting one company like GOOGLE or any one else for that matter is rather in appropriate, and no one is supporting the petition and No one is talking about taxing small companies with smaller portion of the cake.
                  I will say again that an attitude like, you can not do “THIS & THAT” to GOOGLE is immature, What applies to all applies to GOOGLE as well, for heavens sake GOOGLE is not GOD.
                  If you don’t have any VALID POINT, it is better to hold silence or else it seem like you are getting paid to comment BLA BLA BLA

                  • Shahid Saleem

                    Fine, replace wherever I said “Google” with “Amazon”. Feel better?

              • Jibran Manzoor

                Agreed.

          • Tenrai

            The internet DOES NOT BELONG TO ANY ONE! get it?

            Keep at this mentality, and pretty soon Pakistan will be a hermit’s cave… Oh wait, it is already a Back water world thanks to people like you who vote in Sharrifs, Zardarris, Bhuttos and mqm terrorists… Even if a Law does get passed (Which I am sure, wont) who is to say, it will be implemented? Pakistan has laws against environmental malpractices have you seen anyone get incarcerated for polluting and poising drinking water or air?

            You buy a product online, you pay taxes where the item is sourced from, when it enters Pakistan you may pay duty on it. This Tax duty in turn contributes to the GPD. However, with rampant corruption duty on items is not paid or if it is paid it is much lesser than what it should have been.

            I don’t know why you lot hate Americans or the West for that matter? At least they have a functional society, there is law and order, Police does not harass you, peaceful protests, things get done, you can meet the state senator and demand that he changes policies which aren’t beneficial to the state. Try doing that in Pakistan. And you get a phone call. “Zameen kay neechay rehna hay ya uopper”

            Pakistani’s are not better Muslims, you are divided, you kill your own brethren, you indulge in all sort of the socio-economic evils, alcohol consumption, prostitution, gambling, drugs, corruption, extortion — The Prophet Muhammad has said, see not who it is that is speaking but listen to what they are saying. Learning from everyone is encouraged, be it a Hindu Sadhu or a Jewish Rabbi …

        • amir

          Google has local contracts with Mobilink and has servers inside Pakistan, under what law they are doing agreements? also why Google is using the name “Google Pakistan” on its Pakistan specific portal

          • Jibran Manzoor

            What we can do is we simple take back google.pk, and that will straighten them up. :) but that would be extreme though. Anyways Totally agree that they should be taxed. They avoid taxes in other countries too.
            Most of it is explained if you search Double Irish business scheme
            Like this for example: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-22/google-joins-apple-avoiding-taxes-with-stateless-income.html

          • Shahid Saleem

            Clearly if that is the case, then Mobilink isn’t paying taxes properly either, despite having a full office in Pakistan. When companies offer services or sell products to each other, they must also pay some tax to the government of Pakistan. I know one place I worked at used to pay 10% withholding tax every time they used a printing service to print posters or cards or flyers.

            • Nameless

              so ur POINT is ?????
              since Mobilink is evading taxes some how GOOGLE should not be taxed as well. how AMAZING

              • Shahid Saleem

                My point is why petition against Google and force them to open an office when the company that DOES have an office doesn’t pay proper taxes and you let them get away with it?

                Explain your reasoning please. What’s the goal of this petition? To block Google?

                • Nameless

                  Plz grow up. u r asking EVERY SINGLE PERSON HERE TO JUSTIFY THE PETITION. How remarkably foolish of u.

                  • Shahid Saleem

                    I am only asking the people who SUPPORT the petition to use their branes. If the goal is to make Google pay to local government, why is that not “goal” applied EQUALLY to existing companies with local offices???

    • ZeeshanShahid

      While your argument was in the right direction it is unnecessarily emotionally charged. The issue lies with the legislature and its implementation. A lot of taxable activity goes unnoticed by the short-comings of FBR’s implementation abilities. Adding more damage is the lack of will to update the laws to cover e-commerce activities in the modern form.
      However, this is a situation that is not likely to improve anytime soon. People in power got rid of the last tech-savvy FBR chairman as he was broadening the tax net with innovative tools.

    • Shahsawar Muhammad

      Excellent. Heads up.

    • Waqas

      I understand your pain. I hope publishers will not have to bear the tax hammers, since the finance act 2001 stats that all foreign remittance will be exempted from tax.

      I also don’t want to pay tax, because I rcv nothing from Pakistan in terms of professional support.

      It appears to me that, these douchebags want to ban another site. If google can close their service in China (and china is the world’s biggest internet market), Pakistan is NOTHING for them. They will not even think twice.

    • FACT

      You didn’t get logic! Your comment seems only by sentiments with a fear if they are going to ban google, that’s not the point!

      Think logically; Google has registered Local pakistani domain name like .com.pk and officially representing them as “Google Pakistan” and doing business.
      Amazon or any other company you buy any thing from is a bit different case.
      I am somehow happy someone filed this petition and should stay on foots firmly to proceed with it and wish that Google gets registered and pay taxes.

      • Shahid Saleem

        What I do not care about is banning Google or Amazon. They are large companies, if they are blocked, they will find a way to come open an office or register with local FBR.

        What I care about all those SMALLER vendors that I buy from. Like GoG site (good old games) or HumbleBundle or even Steam. I care about small internet bookstores, where I can sometimes find used books for cheaper than Amazon (especially for out of print books).

        THEY will never open a local store.

        Your so-called “logic” is that the law or ruling or whatever the court decides will only apply to major companies, not minor companies. YOU ARE WRONG. It will either apply to ALL or NONE.

        Secondly, amazon is also registered as .pk. Try it and see. They are making revenue from hundreds if not thousands of people, especially educated people or university-level instructors. Amazon AWS makes major money from companies in Pakistan too (sites like Tribune use Amazon S3 storage). The only difference between the two is SCALE: you think Google makes more money than Amazon (which it probably does). Yet otherwise, they are exactly the SAME.

        • abbasi

          For these lies how much money u get?
          Playboy and Amazon don’t have any .pk domains, i just checked.
          If they have then post their links.

          • Shahid Saleem

            What is the price of your ignorance?

            imgur .com/a/ROUpF

            Go to pknic site and verify if you think i am still lying. I have absolutely no idea how you “checked” and got different results from me. I think you DIDN’T CHECK.

            How do i know about these Domains? Simple: markmonitor account was hacked last year and people changed local google site to point to somewhere else. Just DNS changed by Turkish hackers. And all these accounts are managed through markmonitor.

            And then idiots started congratulating each other on how Google was hacked.

      • asim

        Excellent analysis, you have simplified everything. There are people who seem to be on the pay role of Google who constantly want to confuse the whole issue, so that no one can actually understand the depth of the mystery.
        But you can not fool everyone every day!
        No one cares about the small vendors, its the big companies like Google who are abusing the system and that too in third world countries like Pakistan unfortunately.
        They must get the message that someone and thanks that now many know in Pakistan, what wicked games they play and now we as Pakistanies can not bear this kind of exploitation.
        If an international foreign company is generating revenue from Pakistan specific clients, they must adopt ethical business practices and be responsible and pay every dime and penny they owe to tax authorities locally.
        Right now Google is totally abusing the whole system and our intellect.

  • Danish

    Completely Agree With Comments of Mr Shahid Saleem

  • 98% agree with Shah Saleem

    • Ammar Malik

      baki 2% kidher gae? :p

      • harry

        2% Bhai ki personal KHAAAR with Shahid Saleem :P

    • Ali Salman

      And from where did you get this 98% figure? From Shahid Saleem ? LOL man.

  • You Just Don’t Threat The Mighty Google at all .. This is just stupid…

    • Pakistani in Paris

      Yes. Unless you’re China!
      HAHAHHAH I still don’t get why Pakistanis in Pakistan lack self esteem.
      In France and all of Europe the smartest and most respected immigrant community is Pakistanis

      • waqas

        Sire,

        Yes yoooou..

        You’re an absolute legend. Your words will be written with golden ink. and you deserve a medal of honor for your super brain.

        And for your kind information. Google didn’t give a shit about china. they closed their operation in china yearsssss ago. And remeber China is the world’s biggest internet market. What makes you think pakistan is worthy for Google?

        • Nameless

          waqas how did u judge his SUPER BRAIN from his comments please explain i am very very very CURIOUS

  • Rouge Knight

    Large corporations dont even pay complete taxes in their own respective countries and you expect them to give you a dime. They have virtual holdings in foreign countries where the tax percentage in extremely low. Google Apple etc all are involved and it is completely legal.
    Our laws cannot force them in anyway neither can the laws of the US unless an international effort takes place which is unlikely for a while.

    • ibrar

      We cant force them to? Forgot China? Brazil? India? Cmon man.
      Just block google ads at internet exchange and ptcl proxy servers. Google will shit $$$ i must assure you. Do you know why? If the trend catches up, Google will be doomed. So they will try to hush up the issue.
      btw, our own telcos are not paying taxes. Talk about Google. hahaha

  • Sound’s good, If they are earning millions of $ from us, then they should pay tax to us to!!

  • Ali Ahmad

    Just to add another interesting fact. Google is registered in Ireland for tax purposes where the tax rate is lowest among European member states and United States.

    they have some really good tax advisers

    • ibrar

      Is there a reciprocate tax treaty b/w US and Ireland? Only then Google can save on taxes.

      • Shahid Saleem

        Google is registered in Ireland for European and international operations where they do not have a local office (like Pakistan for example).

        • Abbassi

          Stop confusing the issue, in pakistan Google is not even registered, not paying any taxes even generating revenue from local Pakistani clients.
          All the transactions are made through credit cards in Singapore. The whole taxation and legal system of Pakistan has been bypassed in a wicked way. On top of it its Google Country Consultant/Director Badar Khushnood has been freely doing business development for last 12 years in Pakistan and doing business agreements with PASHA and cell companies. Are we blind that no one can see this exploitation.
          Then look at the indifferent attitude of Google on highly controversial video “Innocence of Muslims” that it conforms to the terms and conditions of YouTube, when this single video has tortured the religious beliefs of Muslims all over the world. So Google makes tons of dollars from all Muslim countries by digital advertising and gives a dam to their culture, traditions and religion. What a business model?
          I agree with the petition and everyone involved should be taken to task and case should be registered against them as soon as possible.

          • Shahid Saleem

            Any time someone brings up that movie and blames Google, I get the idea that they are thinking is broken. Completely, 100% failure on your part.

            Tell me just one thing. Just one. If Google is so much against Islam, if they do not care 1 bit about Muslims, then why did they block that video for countries like Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Indonesia, even for non-Muslim countries like India? Just answer that question, please. No speculation, a truthful, honest answer. Why block for those Muslim countries and not for Pakistan? Do you know the answer?

            If they do not care about Islam or Muslims, then they would not have blocked it for any Muslim country, but the fact is, they did.

            So please, answer that question.

            The problem is, YOU CAN’T. It doesn’t fit your mindset of what Google is. You simply CANNOT come up with a reasonable answer to that question. You simply CANNOT comprehend why Islamic scholars use and continue to use youtube for da’wah, even after that video was posted (and still isn’t taken down). You cannot comprehend.

            So when you bring up that video in any comment against Google, I know I should just ignore you. You cannot reason.

            • asim

              O Please don’t you even know, the only reason Google blocked the video in India etc is because either they have office there or agreements with those countries, not that they care about Islam or anything.
              India has more than 200 million Muslims for your info. Since companies like Google are free to operate illegally in Pakistan without paying any dime so why should they listen to our demands. Plus there are fake NGO’s and people like you to defend their interests. It is now time that all people linked to this crime should be handed over to the law in Pakistan. Very soon it will be happening and there will be truth instead of lies from slaves of Google working to protect the devil and evil interests of Google which is turning into an evil empire causing harm to innocent societies like Pakistan who are hard working, talented and mind their own business. But when someone tries to trick us we know very well how to defend us.

              • Shahid Saleem

                As expected, you’re delusional. Google does not have offices in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc. But they blocked the video there.

                And you forgot to mention what agreements Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia has with Google that Pakistan does not. Can Pakistan get the agreement? With people like you at the helm, of course they cannot!

                All people linked to that crime you say? Ha ha! Dream on, little child, dream on. You cannot even lift your finger to do anything about the crimes you see in front of you on the streets of YOUR OWN CITY yet you think we can get the people behind that video? Ha ha! What power you demonstrate.

                As for evil empire, please ask admin to remove Google ads (yes, this site makes filthy stinking rich money from Google! And more with every page view you give them!) and Google analytics and Google web fonts first.

                • asim

                  You have proved yourself the double standard of Google by blocking anti Islam video in Saudi Arabia and Jordan and not blocking the video in Pakistan. All are Islamic states.

                  Let me tell you why?
                  Because in Pakistan they have paid agents who misguide these companies that don’t worry about the third world, just exploit them.
                  National interest means nothing for these paid agents.
                  Every criminal is caught one day, Google is already facing tax evasion charges in France and UK and very soon in Pakistan.
                  I support all such efforts to bring criminal companies and paying masters for people like you to be brought to Justice as soon as possible.
                  If this website is making money through Google then its Google responsibility to pay tax not Pro Pakistani.
                  Google is already turning into a dinosaur and will be extinct soon.

                  • Shahid Saleem

                    You’re seriously confused. Blaming “paid agents” who misguide Google in a country that has BLOCKED youtube for over a year? In which universe does that make sense? Is Google CEO so stupid he cannot see that a major site is blocked and yet someone still listens to these alleged “paid agents”?

                    • asim

                      I live in Pakistan but have the opportunity to deal with global companies in their countries. Their top management is sometimes totally unaware of the actual facts and the channel from bottom sometimes give false facts. This is exactly what is happening in Google’s case in blocking of YouTube by Pakistan Government. If Google has blocked the anti Islam video in Saudi Arabia and Jordan due to sensitivities in those countries, and people have died last year because of reaction to that video in Pakistan.
                      Then I am sorry the CEO or Chairman of Google is blind or stupid enough who can not differentiate that all of them are Muslim countries.

                    • Shahid Saleem

                      Google CEO even paid a visit to Pakistan before the video aired. Do you HONESTLY believe he has no idea what is going on here? He even wrote about the experience (search for “eric schmidt on pakistan”). he is WELL AWARE of the image problem Pakistan has and the reality.

                      Have you even followed the writings of Badar the Google representative in Pakistan? Do you even know how often he posts anti-American things PUBLICLY? Honestly, what reason can you think of to explain the two facts?

                    • asim

                      Now I have no doubt that you are on the pay role of Google and are working to defend its illegal interests in Pakistan. I must thank to Pro Pakistani neutral policy and power of online social media that people like you get exposed by their own lies and actions.
                      Even the people in main stream media are on your pay role, so they hide your crimes.
                      You think, all of us are 5 years old (although even 5 years old are not so foolish to be tricked by people like you).
                      On one hand you talk about Eric Schmidth -Co Chairman of Google and his concern for Pakistan and at the same time his reluctance (Google’s reluctance) to have official agreement with Government of Pakistan’s Ministry of IT and Telecom despite many requests from Government of Pakistan.
                      The reason is because they are mis guided by their representatives in Pakistan and people on pay role that advise them that don’t worry about Pakistanis they are insects, so then as a result Google does not care and give a damn to this country and its people even if they lose lives as a reaction to Anti Islam video posted on YouTube, the very same video which they blocked in other countries (which you said yourself earlier) like Saudi Arabia, Libya and Jordan etc.
                      Please don’t blame America for all the evil things Google does. Google is just an American company it is not owned by Government of America and does noy follow policies of US Government. Google even refused to remove the anti Islam video even on the request of Obama.
                      Google is doing tax evasion in USA also apart from France, UK and rest of Europe which their top political leaders like President of France and PM of UK have strongly protested in their meetings with Eric Schmidth on many occasions.
                      Google country Consultant/ Representative Badar Khushnood is party to evil doings of Google/ YouTube and is held accountable to many charges including blasphemy of anti Islam video ” Innocence of Muslims” plus all the loss of property in last year’s protests.
                      No one cares about Badar’s false anti American blogs as USA is not the problem here. Its Google. Understood!
                      Where is official response of Badar on this Anti Islam blasphemous video. Why Google is registered and doing business as Google Pakistan when it has no official agreements locally. Can Google deny that it does not earns money from digital advertising from Pakistani clients and provides service to them, when it claims to have no revenue from Pakistan.
                      There are so many questions but unfortunately they are beyond your calibre and capacity. Please bring someone else from Google/ YouTube to defend their case . You have failed miserably.
                      No matter how much confusion you create people like me are there to expose people like you and your pay masters ” Evil Companies” who spread unrest and chaos in the countries like Pakistan and think they can get away with this.
                      Its high time that you declare your official affiliation with Google.

                    • Shahid Saleem

                      It’s all a legal issue, kiddo. Google needs “Intermediary Liability Protection” which other countries are willing to give it but not Pakistan. It’s not even in our laws. the LHC offered it to Google in May, but under what legal standing? Just because the court said so? Courts cannot introduce laws.

                      What ILP means is that if someone posts a defamatory comment on any web site like youtube or this one or pakwheels or tribune comments, the OWNER of the site is held responsible and can be taken to court or jail. In case you haven’t heard of it, google for a famous case where eBay India CEO was jailed because of an auction on that site.

                      The rest of your comment is as confusing as you are. Again, I keep telling you registering means nothing. When even Playboy is registered in Pakistan, what does that mean???

                      Lastly, no one pays me to defend Google. And that just demonstrates your lack of logic. I have been NEUTRAL here, I have not DEFENDED google, I have simply pointed out INACCURACIES in your comments. The fact that you cannot distinguish between CORRECTING your errors and DEFENDING google says something about your mental state.

                    • Asim

                      Google must hire better people in Pakistan to defend its illegal operations. Not amateurs.
                      Playboy is not operational in Pakistan, but Google is fully operational and doing business in Pakistan with all kinds of agreements with local companies and generating revenue.
                      So don’t compare apple with oranges.
                      Very soon your pay masters will be in jail too like the case you pointed out about eBay in India, the only difference is that eBay is a legitimate company in India but Google Pakistan is totally illegitimate.
                      Its like a grey traffic business.
                      Simply misleading others won’t prove the “Innocence of Google” , again don’t confuse it with Google sponsored and backed movie “Innocence of Muslims”. :)
                      Jail, Jail Jail is the destinations for all the crimes including blasphemy committed by Google’s agents and reps in Pakistan. They have no immunity in this country.
                      Motto for you is ” Reap as you Sow” and its payback time for this country by the people who think they are too smart.

                    • Shahid Saleem

                      Once again, I don’t work for, get paid by or have any other relationship with Google other than using them for gmail and search and ads. If Google were blocked tomorrow, All I would lose is the ability to pay for applications on their app store, that’s it.

                      But so would everyone else.

                      Is amazon operational in Pakistan? They have a .pk domain. And making moeny from us.

                      Is godaddy operational here? They also have a .pk domain, and make money from us. And I would not be surprised at all if Playboy is not making some money from us, too.

                      How is that any different from Google? Not at all. Domain registered means nothing. Credit card purchases, no different at all.

                      Now, if you say Google is doing business with Mobilink and other companies, then 1. Either Google is doing legitimate business, or 2. Mobilink is assisting them in illegitimate business. In fact, for that matter, so is this very site you are commenting on, for they have Google ads. Are you going to accuse Amir of doing something illegal? No? Why not?

                      Please, file a case tomorrow with LHC to put Badar in jail for the movie, and also CEO of local Mobilink and PTCL and other companies doing “illegitimate” business with Google. Otherwise, you’re just empty words. kalam faadi from the boy in the comments section.

      • Ali Ahmad
  • Hamad Dar

    Wow, the petitnetnor lives under the rock and has no clue about dual taxation waiver laws.

    • waqas

      Yes they live under the rock and have stones in their head. Unfortunately.

      I consider it a self-promotion attempt by the petitioner.

      • amir

        u r right we suffer from inferiority complex, if someone wants to legalize the internet business being run by global giants like Google in Pakistan dont get upset. Everything is possible in today’s world

  • Hamad Dar

    Just like ProPakistani doesn’t pay any tax to US govt for driving income from US companies such as Google, Google also doesn’t pay tax to Pakistani govt. for driving revenue from Pakistan. There’s a dual taxation treaty in place.

    • M.Rameez Ul-Haq

      Who said ProPak doesn’t pay tax to US Govt ??

      • Shahid Saleem

        Do you know for a fact that they do? Present evidence, then.

        Or are you just making noise?

      • Hamad Dar

        Aamir can verify to you he doesn’t pay tax to US Govt.

        • Nauman

          yar harmari local comapnies ki adds hi to mostly Propakistani pr show hoti hn adsense k zriay !!
          Google 30-35 % share ly jata hy on “click” and Aamir sb to 65-70% mil jata hy…. traffic b local comapny ki site/link pr chli jaati hy…

          Moral: everyone having benefits, so who cares TAX !!!

  • Shahsawar Muhammad

    This is full time bullshit. You can get any country’s domain like .com.au, .co.uk etc and you don’t need to be regsitered as a company in that country. Its just a remote server address aliase, for example normally when we enter a domain name, behind the scene its just go to the ip address of that server.
    If you say that google is earning just displaying ads, its their business, lemme ask, do our website paid tax in getting displayed in other countries. Or if they use google ads, do they pay taxes in the other countries where the website is displayed.

    So the person who has signed this petition is totally mad and he should go to mental hospital instead of court.

    How many international ecommerce website are paying taxes in the operating country, there are billions of ecommerce site operating now a days, so that mean they should have to pay tax in each country just by being displayed in every country.

    Oh come on you Duff man, you don’t have any idea about what is it about, so keep away for google way of business and go and sell AALO CHOLY which you are meant to be. Fool guy.

    • mod

      I think ur use of language reflects ur pathetic mind.

  • m waqas khan

    this is not even possible unless it involves real hardware trade.We being in pakistan are more lucky because
    1….We send W8 tax form to our payer/advertising companies which exempts us from paying taxes to US (or whatever country that advertising company is) so we get 100% of our online earnings into our pak bank accounts.then
    2…..In pakistan we having online earnings or even IT companies by pakistani are also fully exempt of paying taxes to our own tax authorities till 2016.So logically we keep 100% of our earnings.
    So by international tax laws google etc are also not bound to pay taxes to our government until and unless they have their holdings in pakistan.And i believe pak govt is still taxing those IT companies which are working in hardware domain.So if you want the google to pay taxes here then you have to approve it internationally as we pakistanis are also taking 100% of our revenue from other countries without paying any taxes related to IT..So govt has to tax individuals or local IT companies who have earnings from abroad inorder to increase its revenue

    • Pakistani in Paris

      This is not true. W8 only prevents double taxation. You pay the difference to the US government if it has already been taxed in Pakistan.

      This only works for countries which have a tax treaty with USA. If Pakistan imposes tax on Google, Google will pay the difference in rates to the USA (if the Pakistan tax rate is higher, Google will not have to pay to US government)

  • Kamran

    Damn it, the most genius petitioner just missed capturing google CEO’s secret meeting with our Ex-PM…….!!!

  • Omair Ahmed

    Yes tax has to be paid…tax evasion company i.e. google and millions/billions other sites(who does not have office and) are earning must be blocked until they register their firm/office in Pakistan…. tuck tuck proPakistani.pk I guess you do have registered office/firm? No…Congratulations.. you are about to be blocked in Pakistan forever :P ..

    • Arsalan Vardag

      This is a very interesting and illuminating discussion.

      As a tax professional, I would like to make some comments regarding the core question as following:

      The Question being – Under the existing laws of Pakistan, are Google or other similar companies, who “do not have office in Pakistan” or “are not registered in Pakistan” liable to pay Income Tax for the Income generated from Pakistan?

      The answer is a simple “Yes”.

      Relevant clauses of the Income Tax Ordinance, 2001 are following:

      Under Section 11(6) of the Income Tax Ordinance, 2001 – “The income of a non-resident person under a head of income shall be computed by taking into account only amounts that are Pakistan-source income.”

      Section 101 of the Income Tax Ordinance, 2001 deals with the Geographical source of income.

      Section 101(3) – “Business income of a non-resident person shall be Pakistan-source income to the extent to which it is directly or indirectly attributable to –

      (a) a permanent establishment of the non-resident person in Pakistan;

      (b) sales in Pakistan of goods or merchandise of the same or similar kind as those sold by the person through a permanent establishment in Pakistan;

      (c) other business activities carried on in Pakistan of the same or similar kind as those effected by the non-resident through a permanent establishment in Pakistan; or

      (d) any business connection in Pakistan.

      Section 101(4) – Where the business of a non-resident person comprises the rendering of independent services (including professional services and the services of entertainers and sports persons), the Pakistan-source business income of the person shall include in addition to any amounts treated as Pakistan-source income under sub-section (3) any remuneration derived by the person where the remuneration is paid by a resident person or borne by a permanent establishment in Pakistan of a non-resident person.

      Section 101(14) state the residual situation as “Any amount not mentioned in the preceding sub-sections shall be Pakistan-source income if it is paid by a resident person or borne by a permanent establishment in Pakistan of a non-resident person.

  • Shahid Saleem

    Tell me, how much is Adwords revenue from Pakistani users?

    We have gone over the same discussion whenever Facebook is blocked. Tv anchors are saying “pakistan blocking facebook is causing crores of dollars of nukhsaan to facebook!!!” reality: less than 0.5% of their revenue comes from Pakistan.

    So, guesstimate it for me. How much revenue does Google make from Pakistan? We cannot even be merchants for Google Wallet.

  • Rehan Allahwala

    Those who like this, I suggest to read the book called the Sovereign Individual

  • Aryan

    This is really stupid petition against Google, because there are hundred of sites by Pakistan which are not paying taxes even ProPakistani.Pk not pays tax or pays…

    • bajwa

      Pro pakistani and other sites are generating revenue through Google, so if Google is defaulting then its not their fault. Use ur brain plz

  • I have a query here about Google Double Verification System for Login to Google Account. This system sends messages and automated voice calls from variable / random numbers, which are sometimes even not displayed / recognized by the receivers. They don’t seem to be mobile or land-line numbers at all. Do they come under the purview of Grey Traffic that the PTA is trying to block?

  • Ahmed

    Utter nonsense, countries give incentives to companies so that they come and invest. This creates jobs and economical activity, we are trying to push them away. Google can easily stop their webpage from pakistan and it won’t hurt their business at all. Ireland offers 15% coorporate tax which and they’s what google has their european head quarter in Ireland. Singapore is almost tax free and big companies are all established there. Tax rate in Pakistan is 30% why can’t we offer them 5% tax and this will surely give them incentive and attract investment.